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 Post subject: Hello thweinvisiblescarecrow
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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There is an English suppressor that was made for a short time a few years back called the "Lapwood Husher" I believe, do you recall it?

I don't remember too much about it, it was made for rimfire and air rifle and I believe it had two opposing oval chambers.
I am curious as to its efficiency on an air rifle, FAC or otherwise and thought perhaps you might have run across one in your endeavor

Cheers, Hush.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Never heard of it.
I'll certainly look out for one & look up any info I can find about it.
Any idea of year of manufacture, wild guess will do, I have some old air rifle mag's I can allso look through.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:31 pm 
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Hm, rough guess about two to four years back. I tried checking my old bookmarks but found nothing of any help.
I do recall their web page slightly, very colourful, black, red and yellow if memory serves, he explained his theory, something to do with dropping someone off at the airport and looking up at the jets and getting the idea, etc.
He produced them in .177 and .22 air rifle and .22 rimfire and he was going to start production of centerfire models and then nothing, think he ran out of money. I have no idea how many may be floating around the used market, not too many I suppose as I think he was only around about a year if that.
Interesting though.

Well have a nice day, Hush

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:17 am 
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Hi Hush the name ran a Lapwood Husher rang a bell but I could'nt place it and have never seen one. I think they were comparitively expensive and not really effective at least they did not seem to have tested well directly against the available compitition in Rimfire. The PES Mighty Mouse is a direct copy (IIRC) of the Parker Hale MM - basically 14No stamped baffles (generally - there are some variants) giving a near flat washer configuration. InvisibleScarecrow will be testing PH MM1's at some point, suprisingly effective on a bolt gun.

So on rimfire not really great, centrefire results seemed more encouraging. Lapwoods website is down, as is the phone number so possibly out of buisness now - several Rimfire Hushers for sale on UK websites for approx £50/$90. The Rimfire model does not appear to have worked that well, the Hushers seeming to need high pressures to be effective. Comments below from an owner posted at SniperCountry.

Quote below
"I have a suppressor called then Lapwood Husher, its is made in the UK and relies upon a vacuum principle using the propellant gasses to suppress them selves, It is virtualy maintenance free and works very well with supersonic ammo, the rifle sound signature is reduced tob approximately that of a 22lr firing standard ammo.
I am some what disapointed in its performance using sub sonic ammo however, I imagine that as the can relies upon exhausting propellant gasses to dampen or supress the sound, then since the subsonic rounds produce a lot less, the efficiency is reduced. I would like to try other types , but they are to damn expensive to buy and finout they don't work and also my local fire arms department would want to know why I needed another can when i already have one, (ok I could argue that point easy enough). My heavey barreled 308 seems to perform exactly the same with or without the can, apart from a 1" lower POI at 100m."

Edited to add

Article sourced from the UK Magazine "Shooting Sports" May 02, Page 62.
Shooting Sports Magazine. Workshop.
The Big Suppressor Test.

Bruce Potts is once again cracking on about his favourite subject - silenced rifles, but this time he's bought all together in a Centrefire and .22 Rimfire sound moderator round-up.


Test Table one (full Bore).

Moderator Tested dB Level
PES® T12 S/S, .223 123.8
PES® Ali, Silent Stalker, .223 125.1
PES® Small Muzzle,. 223 125.8
PES® Large Muzzle,.223 125.8
Reflex T8,.223 124.9
Vaimeco,.223 126.0
Husher 1, .223 127.0
Husher 2, 6mm PPC 128.3
Husher 2 Plus/Plus, 6mm PPC 127.0
No Moderator .223 (subsonic rounds) 130.6
Fully Suppressed .308 (subsonic) 120.1
Fully suppressed 7.62 x 39 (subsonic rounds) 121.9

Comments on the Table One.
It's important to note that sound is measured in terms of it's frequency and pressure levels. These are measured in decibels or dB for short. The dB scale is logarithmic in nature, which means that when a sound doubles you get a 3dB increase. If a 70dB sound is doubled, it becomes 73dB not 140dB. That is why some of those readings look similar, but when you scrutinise it, there is in fact a marked difference performance.

Starting with the .223 Tikka with no moderator, a reading was taken to establish the un-silenced report with no supersonic crack. At 10 feet it was very loud but only made by the combustion gasses. The reading was 130.6dB.

Next the moderators were screwed on, one by one and five consecutive shots were fired to get an average reading of noise reduction. It was apparent that they all worked very well, though some better than others!
Also, while some performed better in the dB reduction department, they had faults elsewhere i.e. in construction.

The quietest moderator tested was the PES® T12 Stainless Steel at 123.8dB. That shaves off nearly 7dB over the un-silenced rifle and, as we know, being logarithmic that means the silenced rifle only produced a quarter of the noise - very impressive. You didn't actually need a sound meter to tell you that - just listening revealed how quiet it was. Hearing protection, in fact, was rendered unnecessary, yet moderator-free, the sounds of the gun really hurt. The PES® T12 S/S is a classic two point init: 400mm long and 38mm in diameter, it uses a stack of baffles in front of the muzzle with a massive dump chamber behind. It's heavy at 850g but is very well made. Oh and it's the only can in S/S and is strippable for easy cleaning.

Next best was the Reflex T8 with a reading of 124.9dB, which for all intents and purposes was the same as the T12 PES®, allowing for instrument variants, but there was a define ring to the signature that I had experienced before. This is because at 300mm long and 50mm wide it has a large capacity with a thin outer shell that heats up quickly. It also has a baffle stack at the front and a large dump chamber behind the muzzle. Its sound reduction was very good, but it cannot be be stripped at the rear for cleaning, in my book, the PES® wins. However, note that at 640g the Reflex is significantly lighter than the T12.

In third place was the PES® Aluminium Silent Stalker which at 125.1dB, still provided a significant reduction next to the un-silenced rifle. Furthermore, it did have the benefit of being a meagre 350g in weight. It was very light and a good all round moderator.

In joint fourth were the more conventional single point moderators - the PES small and large can versions - which strangely gave an identical reading of 125.8dB, cutting the noise level by over half. Vaimeco came a very close fifth at 126.1dB and at 280mm length and width of 38mm is quite large but easily stripped for cleaning. The build quality, however, is variable.

In sixth, seventh and eighth place were the Hushers that achieved a halving of the noise in both the .223 and 6mm PPC rifles. Unfortunately though, they didn't prove as effective with some of the other on-muzzle designs. They remain the best made moderators available, however, with little to go wrong, and they're easy to clean too. Gerry Lapwood, the designer of the Hushers, has a super moderator in the pipeline - so stay tuned.

Each moderator tested had its own particular muzzle signature. Although some showed the same readings there was a distinct difference in the noise that reached my human ears. As a comparison, I bought along my fully suppressed Sako SSR rifle, shooting dedicated subsonic (subs) at 1081 fps, using a 180gr bullet. This is designed to shoot subs and at 120.1dB you just had a massive 'whoosh' of air - it was very satisfying and remained fantastically accurate too. Julian Savory had a fully suppressed subsonic 7.62 x 39 which shot 220 grains subs that gave a good 121.9dB reading. At this point it was noted that there was probably some reflection noise coming back off the straw and surroundings...but all the guns were shot under the same conditions so I feel the results are valid.


Test Table Two (.22 Rimfire).

Moderator Tested dB level Ammunition
Sound Biter 97.1 PMC subs
Sako 93.5 " "
Husher 1 98.5 " "
PES® Ali Silent Stalker 89.5 Winchester Subs
PES® Ali Silent Stalker 87.6 PMC subs
PES® Ali Silent Stalker 109.3 Stingers
22LR no moderator 103.6 PMC subs
22LR no moderator 119.0 Stingers
10/22 Fully Suppressed 86.5 PMC subs


Comments on Table Two.
The .22 LR moderators were tested at the same time location and under the same conditions, but also outside in the 'free air' to ensure no reflective bullet impact noise could be heard, just to see if the results were the differed.

Ambient background was about 51dB. Using a Sako rimfire with PMC subs unless stated, the results were as follows. Surprise, surprise, the PES® Aluminium

Silent Stalker came tops with a 87.6dB reading, cutting the un-silenced 103.6dB by a remarkable 16dB reduction. This is seriously good if you remember the nature of the logarithmic 3 dB doubling scale. The PES® aluminium Silent Stalker is light too at 350g and being a shrouded two point system, it has all those associated benefits. Using Winchester ammo the reading increased to 89.5dB.

The Sako moderator gave a very good account of itself at 93.5dB, with the Parker Hale model close behind at 94.6dB. Of the two, I would choose the Sako as it is the lighter and has a one piece baffle system for ease of cleaning.

Next were the Husher 1 and the Sound Biter at 98.5dB and 97.1dB respectively, each still at least halving the decibel reading of the un-silenced gun. Out of interest we shot some Stingers un-silenced at 119.0dB and silenced (PES® Ali Silent Stalker) at 109.3dB- and a highly impressive 10dB reduction with high velocity ammo resulted, nearly bring it down to an un-silenced PMC subsonic level.

The fully suppressed Ruger 10/22 rifle stole the show sounding off a diminutive 86.5dB using PMC ammo. It was clear that this was the limit of sound detection using these methods, as the action noise was as loud as the report! It was decided to shoot the .22 LR outside into free air because, for one, the supersonic crack elimination was not an issue as we were using subsonic .22LR ammo and, also, to see if the reflective noise and bullet impact would make a significant difference to the readings.

Husher - G&JA Lapwood, 0845 458 3633 The Husher One, which started a revolution with its no-baffle design, only managed 9th place which was disappointing, but shows that some moderators work better with more pressure put into them. At £127, it's £100 more than the PES® Mighty Mouse, which gave the same noise reduction, but its added virtues are its excellent build quality & ease of cleaning.

Husher Moderator
Husher One - £127
Husher One Plus - £199
Husher Two - £175
Husher Two Plus - £259

I have posted a picture of a Husher in case ISC has one unmarked in his collection. The link for the data above seems to have disappeared or I would have posted it. HTH some.
Husher - Rimfire Model

Image


Last edited by Trex on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Found one, if I manage to get it It'll be test 52.
Rimfire model & from the original owner, £160 all those years ago.
No wonder they went out of business.
Hi Trex, that's some reading for another day !!!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:05 pm 
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Trex, thank you for the interesting read. I admit that I have not been keeping up in regards to suppressors on your side of the pond, you have raised my curiosity of the PES Mighty Mouse, could you tell me a bit about it please, length, width, type and number of baffles, aluminum or carbon fibre tube.

Thank you, Hush

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Pretty much what I have Hush. I dont have any PES. I seem to remember a review saying the PES MM was the same as the PH MM1 or maybe it was that PES had bought the MM name? Looking at it again it sounds a different construction to the Parker Hale. A case of as you get older your memory starts to suck. Quote below from a review.

"Starting with the Mighty Mouse moderator, this is designed for air gun & .22 rimfire use. It is available in aluminium tube that is blacked or silver. It is 160mm long & 22mm diameter & is muzzle mounted design. The internal baffles form a series of springs & baffles sections that reduce the muzzle blast from a rimfire using subsonic ammunition to a dull "thud". At only £29.95 this offers excellent value for money, it is very good in noise reduction, is light at only 84gm yet still remaining fully field strippable."

The PH MM1 I have is blued steel outer tube, 22.8mm/0.897" OD. 175mm/6.899" long. 15No pressed steel baffles acting as spacers. Individual baffle depth is 5.54mm/0.218". Baffle OD is 19.86mm/0.782". Blast chamber is 65mm long and only the "one" flat spring which is used at the endcap. Edit : Wieght is 255gram/7.23Oz.

Not having a PES MM I'm curious now and will try to source the PES MM version for comparison - the description mention springs (plural), unfortanatly the importers mobile phone keeps cutting out, figure I might have one by end of the coming week. If I get one maybe The ISC would like to test it for us?


Last edited by Trex on Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Hi Invisible edited the above to note that the test came from shooting sports May 02.

Be lucky on tracking down a Husher - you could always sell me an ASE Utra to keep up funds. :wink: I found some online photos of the Utra Rimfire internals which answered a few questions - which of course always leads to more questions. I have a similar design but using a different baffle system so it would be interesting to compare its performance.

Your Sirocco SM11 test was quite intriguing, I like it! Sounded the best to me so far. I have been wanting to try a cone suppressor for a while now, as efficiency wise I would think they would test better than the PH type baffle.

I will have to try one but havent figured out how to repeatedly stamp or spin a deep conical baffle yet.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:30 pm 
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The SM11 was made for air rifles but many found them to be good on rimmies & HMR's.
I had to edit the vid due to as soon as I fired the 2nd shot I wailed in a verry high pitched voice "that's high pitched"
I sounded awfull.
Probably worse than the silencer itself.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Trex wrote:
Pretty much what I have Hush. I dont have any PES. I seem to remember a review saying the PES MM was the same as the PH MM1 or maybe it was that PES had bought the MM name? Looking at it again it sounds a different construction to the Parker Hale. A case of as you get older your memory starts to suck. Quote below from a review.

"Starting with the Mighty Mouse moderator, this is designed for air gun & .22 rimfire use. It is available in aluminium tube that is blacked or silver. It is 160mm long & 22mm diameter & is muzzle mounted design. The internal baffles form a series of springs & baffles sections that reduce the muzzle blast from a rimfire using subsonic ammunition to a dull "thud". At only £29.95 this offers excellent value for money, it is very good in noise reduction, is light at only 84gm yet still remaining fully field strippable."

The PH MM1 I have is blued steel outer tube, 22.8mm/0.897" OD. 175mm/6.899" long. 15No pressed steel baffles acting as spacers. Individual baffle depth is 5.54mm/0.218". Baffle OD is 19.86mm/0.782". Blast chamber is 65mm long and only the "one" flat spring which is used at the endcap. Edit : Wieght is 255gram/7.23Oz.

Not having a PES MM I'm curious now and will try to source the PES MM version for comparison - the description mention springs (plural), unfortanatly the importers mobile phone keeps cutting out, figure I might have one by end of the coming week. If I get one maybe The ISC would like to test it for us?

Comeing verry verry soon is a P/H tested with a similar looking one with different baffles, no idea what it is, perhaps you know Trex.
I'll shout you when It's on utbe.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:09 am 
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OK - PES Mighty Mouse, ordered, paid for and enroute.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:07 pm 
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PES Mighty Mouse arrived two days ago. Percy Engineering is now branded as MAE Suppressors. It is as described below. Iv'e been curious about these for a while since apparently comparable to PH MM.

"Starting with the Mighty Mouse moderator, this is designed for air gun & .22 rimfire use. It is available in aluminium tube that is blacked or silver. It is 160mm long & 22mm diameter & is muzzle mounted design. The internal baffles form a series of springs & baffles sections that reduce the muzzle blast from a rimfire using subsonic ammunition to a dull "thud". At only £29.95 this offers excellent value for money, it is very good in noise reduction, is light at only 84gm yet still remaining fully field strippable."

Tube OD .86"/22mm. Tube length 6"/154mm. Tube Length with endcap removed 5.86"/149mm.

The internals comprise 4 No springs with a free spring length of 2"/50mm each. Three alloy plain flat baffles with an OD of 0.75"/19.25mm and thickness of 0.15"/4mm.

When assembled the distance from the inside suppressor wall to front of first baffle is 1.33"/34mm.

It's a nice quality tube, its difficult to say if the muzzle threading is machined in rather than using a threaded in or similar mount - there appears to be a very, very faint line in the powdercoat which may indicate the latter and looking inside it does look like both tube ends are threaded. It's light enough at 5.7Oz and if it performs as reviews indicate on sub-sonic it should be ok.

I'm keen to see how it performs against the PH MM and more importantly against a SAK which is the same cost but has a lot more volume and wieght involved - if comparable to SAK in suppression the MAE would probably be the preferred buy. Either way at $48 for any of these mentioned it would be hard to complain. Will be fun to play with and no doubt a better set of baffles coming it's way anyway.

Found link again. To The ISC do you have the 9.5" Vaimeco moderator?
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/suppress/news.htm

http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/guns/121 ... fires.html


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:47 am 
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Arrived & filmed.
Comeing soon.
Don't hold your breath though, not impressed.
No wonder the're not made today.

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 Post subject: Hello thweinvisiblescarecrow
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:03 pm 
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Welcome along You might want to resize the photo though I think its probably visible from space Forum rules state 800w x 600h pixels max Looks good from what I can see though.

Dan

EDIT: youve resized it already
Sorry for offtop: prescription Cialis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:15 am 
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Odd thing happened yesterday.
Found a clone Husher, in the post to me as I type.
The silencer in question, test on a .22lr to follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX47O74YAEI

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:02 pm 
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thweinvisiblescarecrow wrote:
Odd thing happened yesterday.
Found a clone Husher, in the post to me as I type.
The silencer in question, test on a .22lr to follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX47O74YAEI



I was given a Lapwood Husher a little while back.

Dimensions are a little larger than given in the video that you previously done. Sizes are approx I did'nt stick the gauge on it.

Length 230mm
Diameter 50mm (at endcaps)
Bore Diameter 10mm

Looks the same as the picture I posted above but has an extra groove on the rear endcap and the tube finish is finer. I notice the video one has no grooves on end caps at all.

Figure it will be a good host for different baffle sets for experimenting.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:24 pm 
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The video is of an original so I will compare with the copy.
Trex, I sent you an email a few days ago, did you get it ?
If not can you send me your email addy please.
Regarding conversation we had a few months ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:39 am 
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Just got the copy, apparently It's of a recent Husher.
Quite different, my original has one chamber.
This has two chambers screwed together in sections.
Back of the pile for tests but I'll compare & try it on air & .22lr + HMR.
Trex, still hopeing for contact.

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