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 Post subject: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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I have far to many ARs ,so I have been told and now I have to get rid of a few. I am ordering an LWRC A3 and It's my first AR piston gun. I have never had what I would consider a problem with receiver wear. I understand that piston ARs have bolt tilt problems that lead to wear in the receiver and buffer tube. Has anyone seen any wearing problems in their rifle or is it just minor scuffing. POF claim that the roller cam pin cuts down on wear,would it be good to add or just a waist of money.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:45 am 
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Complete waste of money. I wouldn't buy one with your credit card.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:41 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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Just another gimmic. Kinda thought so. I see they have one for a DI system, never felt a need for it before,same for a piston AR than.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:52 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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The roller cam helps cut down on friction. Saying it is a complete waist of money is tantamount to saying that wheel bearings in a wagon are a complete waste of money. Sure you can do it with bushings, but bearings are smoother and stay cooler longer. The roller cam is not a bearing, but it is a bushing where none was previously.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Have you used one? Do they work?


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I have 4. They are great. Several buddies of mine use them as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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DI guns or pistons setups? I am all for new things but this is my first piston AR. I thought I would ask since POF is the only ones I can find running this.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:08 pm 
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I would like to test one.

If I am able to detect that friction is lower, then I would start to think about if the difference was worth the potential for it breaking sooner than a normal pin.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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That's what I would like to see, a test to tell if it really works.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Robert, as you know, I own a Diablo. My friend also owns one. You can put a roller cam in one and a regular cam pin in the other. Fire 100 rounds out of each and field strip. The roller cam will be cooler. I do not have an engineering degree, or years of experience selling product, but these were my observations.

jmselders, I do not own a DI gun. Well that is a lie- I have a kitty cat upper, but I am planning to convert it to piston.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:48 pm 
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Try this test with and without the roller cam pin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JmIQXkoog8


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Oh I can tell you conclusively that the roller cam improves the ability of the operating system to lock up without jamming.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:25 am 
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I believe it probably would. I would like to try one but don't want to deal with how the carrier key needs to be modified or replaced.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/sh ... pgrade-Kit


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:20 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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I assume the pin is smaller diameter beneath the roller. I would not view this as a good thing. If it was that high of friction there you would expect there to me a lot of wear since friction is what generates wear. I have had bolt groups with 40K rnds though it with out enough wear to warrant replacement of the cam pin. I would like to see some empirical test to prove it was worth it and not another feel good BS product like KNS pins.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:37 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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I haven't tried the POF roller cam pins yet, but I did just purchase a POF upper for my latest SBR build, so I'm looking forward to tinkering with it to see. My HK 416 has about 2000 rds through it and you can definitely see where the standard cam pin causes excess wear in the upper receiver. I've seen other 416's with many more rounds through them that really look bad. Could it be a "feel good BS product"? Yup, but also like the KNS pins, it could extend the life of your stuff, some of it you might have paid a lot of money for. Just my thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:00 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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My understanding is that when the beltfed variant of the AR10 was being developed, there was a need to have less friction for consistent & reliable operation and is what prompted the development of the roller cam-pin (among other changes) many many years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:12 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Piston guns also may be harder in the system there given the higher pressures they work with and the amount of over gassing many seem to exhibit.

Well I have never seen a KNS pin save a receiver nor reduce wear but I have seen them destroy the pin holes they were to protect. So the feel good BS product does harm then its worse than snake oil right?

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:38 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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I guess I look at it this way. Pin Holes usually wear out because of 2 things, lots and lots of shooting, and excessive removal of the pins/trigger components. The KNS pins don't really protect against that, but they do keep the the trigger components in place in the event the holes do wear out. Does the standard cam pin cause excess friction in a piston gun? Yup. Does the roller cam pin reduce this wear? Maybe. Am I willing to try it out in order to protect from a catostrophic failure just like I install KNS pins on my AR's to ensure the pins don't come out during a course of fire? Sure am. To each his own, for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:57 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Quote:
I believe it probably would. I would like to try one but don't want to deal with how the carrier key needs to be modified or replaced.


I tell you what Rob, when I get back from visiting family in Georgia, I will try one of my roller cam pins on the bcg from the kitty kat. Then I'll let you know if it works without the new carrier key. If I don't respond to this in several days just remind me.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:44 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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OK Rob, the carrier key would definitely have to be modified or replaced. I do not think it would be very hard to modify it- I would go so far as to say that I would be able to run that roller cam on there with a needle file and 15 minutes of red-neck-ingenuity. I'm not going to bother because eventually when I get time I am going to install the Adams Arms kit onto my Kitty Kat. I do not think it would be very hard at all though- just a wee bit of metal to be moved.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Copenhagen, I know you were trying to use one you have and that you're going to an Adams kit,but if someone wanted to run one in a DI setup they make a kit. The kit replaces the key and pin ,it just bolts on.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Oh I know, I saw that kit too- and then you get the NP3 coated key which is much easier to clean. I am a cheap skate though, so if I could see myself filing down the original gas key too... Then again, why do that if I am already going to pay for the roller cam? May as well get the modified key too. Not very hard to install and stake.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:02 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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I'm starting to change my mind and thinking of trying one now.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:27 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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They are pretty sweet.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone used a POF Roller Cam Pin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Changing a key seems a harder to me than hitting my existing one with a Dremel.

As for NP3 bolt carriers - I know of an organization who tested that and said it flaked off under heavy use. I would use a plain carrier or maybe chrome.


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