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 Post subject: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Hello Everyone, can anyone help me in the area of Welrod technical diagrams etc ?

i am trying to locate them on the net.... unfortunately not having much luck at the moment....

Thanks in Advance

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:50 pm 
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I might be mistaken, but I believe that the original blueprints still are classified by the British Government due to their use by special forces long after WW2.


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:07 pm 
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Andy_Holden wrote:
Hello Everyone, can anyone help me in the area of Welrod technical diagrams etc ?

i am trying to locate them on the net.... unfortunately not having much luck at the moment....

Thanks in Advance

Andy


Hi Andy
I think I have seen plans on here http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index ... on=search2, you have to join the site to enter and I think you now have to make 20 post before getting all the info, but you should end up with what you need

Cheers

Darren

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:26 pm 
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Hi,

There are some old Blue Prints out there as well as 3D Models (for 3D CAD). Search in Turbosquid.com, GrabCAD.com, homegunsmith.com and Google Sketchup Warehouse.

I remember that “Mongo” used to have a SolidWorks model. Contact him.

I have no idea of the quality of the models/plans available on the Net for there are for sure.

Best,

Paul

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:53 pm 
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http://www.timelapse.dk/welrod.php

Thank me later.

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:57 pm 
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From the Weaponsguild thread...

Contact Us at the National Archives in the Washington, DC Area
Contact Us Electronically
View the Organizational Phone List
Search the Employee Locator

The Welrod was made in caliber .32 and 9mm. The US Navy tested them in 1943 and termed them very satisfactory. They then procured an unknown number of them in .32 caliber. The OSS obtained all of theirs from the British SOE. It was never a standard issue weapon for the OSS. It did later become a standard CIA issue weapon. The National Archives in Washington DC has drawings on them in Record Group 227, E151, B64. They have both the Mark I and Mark II versions in that group so if you contact them ask for both. They can be reached at nara@gov.com by e-mail. They also made a Sleeve gun that the OSS tested but never approved. The OSS stil had it in inventory at wars end.


Washington, DC
Telephone: 202-357-5000
Customer Service Center Telephone: 1-866-325-7208

College Park, MD
Telephone: 301-837-2000
Customer Service Center Telephone Number: 1-866-272-6272

Suitland, MD
Staff Contacts

Fax: 301-778-1621
Reference Requests Fax: 301-778-1501

PDF files require the free Adobe Reader.

You can get prints directly from The Man.


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:54 am 
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The only prints they have are worse than Timelapse's copies. :?

At least that's how it was in 2006.

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:55 am 
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jlwilliams wrote:
From the Weaponsguild thread...

Contact Us at the National Archives in the Washington, DC Area
Contact Us Electronically
View the Organizational Phone List
Search the Employee Locator

The Welrod was made in caliber .32 and 9mm. The US Navy tested them in 1943 and termed them very satisfactory. They then procured an unknown number of them in .32 caliber. The OSS obtained all of theirs from the British SOE. It was never a standard issue weapon for the OSS. It did later become a standard CIA issue weapon. The National Archives in Washington DC has drawings on them in Record Group 227, E151, B64. They have both the Mark I and Mark II versions in that group so if you contact them ask for both. They can be reached at nara@gov.com by e-mail. They also made a Sleeve gun that the OSS tested but never approved. The OSS stil had it in inventory at wars end.


Washington, DC
Telephone: 202-357-5000
Customer Service Center Telephone: 1-866-325-7208

College Park, MD
Telephone: 301-837-2000
Customer Service Center Telephone Number: 1-866-272-6272

Suitland, MD
Staff Contacts

Fax: 301-778-1621
Reference Requests Fax: 301-778-1501

PDF files require the free Adobe Reader.

You can get prints directly from The Man.


Those prints suck by the way. Discovered them a long time ago when living in DC. Not worth the time trying to acquire them.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:12 am 
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Want to add that there are NO blueprints out there like everyone wants with all the measurements and what not on them, THOSE documents are classified within the Great Britain, under one of their secrecy acts or something.

The best you will find it someone that had access to one and made some measurements or someone that reverse engineers it themselves.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:40 am 
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Bendersquint wrote:
Want to add that there are NO blueprints out there like everyone wants with all the measurements and what not on them, THOSE documents are classified within the Great Britain, under one of their secrecy acts or something.

The best you will find it someone that had access to one and made some measurements or someone that reverse engineers it themselves.

-B


Totally. I think those timelapse schematics (for want of a better word), are the best us Welrod enthusiasts can do with for the time being.

That being said I do believe that one could greatly improve on the Welrod's design, in all aspects, with modern technology.

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:48 am 
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LavaRed wrote:
That being said I do believe that one could greatly improve on the Welrod's design, in all aspects, with modern technology.

I agree, there is nothing magical about the Welrod.


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:36 am 
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Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:50 am 
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jlwilliams wrote:
Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.


We are working on a modern Welrod just takes time. Got most of the plans figured out with prototypes in the next year probably.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:43 pm 
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jlwilliams wrote:
Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.


Technically speaking it doesn't even have to be bolt-action. It could be a slide-operated weapon, where there is or isn't any means for the recoil to operate the slide (one could toggle between modes through a push-button swtich, if needed). That along would make it a far more versatile weapon than the welrod ever was. Parabolic baffles or K baffles, or even a monocore could provide an easy-maintenance, long-durability baffle stack in a much shorter, thinner package, with the option of a single endwipe, but not necessary for excellent suppression.

Finally, one of the Welrod's most useful features, being able to be taken apart quickly and easily for transport, can be easily accomplished in the manner of the UZI.

If you guys want me to, I can knock something together in Google Sketchup for the fun of it, something you can all use (manufacturers and form1ers alike). Just let me know the caliber of choice and other constraints you may require.

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:01 pm 
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This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...




LavaRed wrote:
jlwilliams wrote:
Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.


Technically speaking it doesn't even have to be bolt-action. It could be a slide-operated weapon, where there is or isn't any means for the recoil to operate the slide (one could toggle between modes through a push-button swtich, if needed). That along would make it a far more versatile weapon than the welrod ever was. Parabolic baffles or K baffles, or even a monocore could provide an easy-maintenance, long-durability baffle stack in a much shorter, thinner package, with the option of a single endwipe, but not necessary for excellent suppression.

Finally, one of the Welrod's most useful features, being able to be taken apart quickly and easily for transport, can be easily accomplished in the manner of the UZI.

If you guys want me to, I can knock something together in Google Sketchup for the fun of it, something you can all use (manufacturers and form1ers alike). Just let me know the caliber of choice and other constraints you may require.


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:40 pm 
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MG_Willy wrote:
This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...


They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Excellent... im close to you gys so maybe I can take a peek at some point... lol




Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:
This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...


They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:32 pm 
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MG_Willy wrote:
Excellent... im close to you gys so maybe I can take a peek at some point... lol




Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:
This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...


They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B


Perhaps you can get a sneak peek before we release it.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:08 pm 
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Bendersquint wrote:
jlwilliams wrote:
Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.


We are working on a modern Welrod just takes time. Got most of the plans figured out with prototypes in the next year probably.

-B



If i understand the US law correct , then the gun must NOT be able to fire , unless it looks like a gun

Is this correct ??

The Welrod CAN be fired with out the pistol grip/magazine =ZIP gun
Image
Image
Image

SO how is yours going to be ?? with a Mag well ??= pistolgrip =looks like a gun

I have put up some picture here in ST long time ago
also done it over at HomeGunsmith.com

It is easy to make one , nothing complicated

Its pr, design so


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Ours will not be able to be fired without the magazine though it may end up being registered as an AOW and Suppressor.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Bendersquint wrote:
Ours will not be able to be fired without the magazine though it may end up being registered as an AOW and Suppressor.

-B


If you'd be interested in a concept for a gun that complies with these requirements, I'll be happy to knock up some detailed Sketchups for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:31 am 
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Consider the clever Braverman Stinger pistol -- Ref. << http://pengun.com/ >> -- for example
is a tube that when fired is legal because:

" ... Stinger is the only "legal" pengun -- legal in that it considered an ordinary pistol by the ATF.
This is because it cannot fire till it is folded into the recognizable shape of a pistol. .."

Even with the magazine withdrawn the Welrod is still not a sleeve gun as the magazine well
is sticking down in a "recognizable shape of a pistol." Length of the grip/well is greater than zero.

Tossing this thought into the mixture. Saw one that was also threaded.
Now a new version of the Stinger would make a nice build. The plans exist on the web.


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:25 pm 
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Sounds great... just let me know....

Thanks



Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:
Excellent... im close to you gys so maybe I can take a peek at some point... lol





Perhaps you can get a sneak peek before we release it.

-B


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:
This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...


They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B

Old thread i know, but how did your build go, do you have a final product by now?


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 Post subject: Re: Welrod Technical drawings
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:52 pm 
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Timelapse wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:
This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...


They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B

Old thread i know, but how did your build go, do you have a final product by now?


Still working on it, it is on the backburner worked on here and there, we have much more pressing things to be dealing with.


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